I love the clarity and generosity of your writing. And the texts that you share.
A couple of minor quibbles -- that don't take away from your main points at all -- :
What are we to make of the fact that Elizabeth does give in,a moment later, and more or less tell Lady Catherine how old she is?
With Frost, I think that the poem is so often cited to uphold the notion of walls that that has taken on a life of its own. In reality, though, might not the poem itself come down on the other side (no pun intended :)) of the wall question?
Thanks for these posts, and look forward to the next!
(Come down on the other side of the wall question as a fixed principle, that it? There is a wonderful article someone did once on the poem being cited in judicial decisions in the US, incidentally, usually the way this report seems to have cited it.)
Oh! On rereading this, I see that you mention the proverb from the poem, rather than the poem itself. So quibble deleted (sort of — because the poem itself really does push back against the saying as presented by one of the two characters).
I love all these points so much!! Thanks for raising them. I've always been disappointed by that follow up moment in P&P where Elizabeth reveals her age. I suppose for me the doubling back demonstrates the limits of boldness and humour in the face of privilege, class dynamics and deep-rooted social expectations. But I'd like to think that the way Elizabeth stands up for herself still has an effect: on the other guests, on herself, on Lady Catherine - even if she doesn't stick to her guns. What do you think?
As for Mending Wall, I totally agree with you. That's why I included a link for readers to take a look themselves. You're right, the poem's speaker actually questions the veracity of the proverb and ultimately their position feels like the stronger one. It's one of those funny poems in which the line people remember is actually not indicative of the poem's message. I can think of lots of examples of this: in fact, Robert Frost's other poem The Road Not Taken is often read very seriously but apparently was meant in a more satirical way, to parody the indecisiveness of his friend who struggled to make decisions.
Another example is Funeral Blues by Auden which again was apparently meant satirically but has been made famous as a sorrowful elegy by the film Four Weddings and a Funeral. But then, I find that poem so beautiful and so sad... so sometimes it's nice to read counterfactually or against the author's intentions
Ha — I’m with you on that one, too. Love that poem. And think that he was wrong to disown it. Have you read February House, about Auden’s time in a shared house in Brooklyn during the war? Fascinating.
“But I'd like to think that the way Elizabeth stands up for herself still has an effect: on the other guests, on herself, on Lady Catherine - even if she doesn't stick to her guns. What do you think?” Love that — never thought of it that way. And I suppose that Austen is setting us up, here, for the later encounter and conflict. It never occurred to see the
“ I can think of lots of examples of this: in fact, Robert Frost's other poem The Road Not Taken is often read very seriously but apparently was meant in a more satirical way, to parody the indecisiveness of his friend who struggled to make decisions.” Yes, poor Frost, constantly misinterpreted! I love that poem too, and have taught it from time to time. There’s something a bit magical when people read it aloud line by line and really read it for the first time, seeing the bits of misdirection.
… the first scene as setting us up for the second — as showing that Elizabeth has tried humour and now has to move on to plain speaking — but of course it does do that, too. Very nice.
Very sensible advice. Action or lack of is the question, and it all depends on the consequences one is willing to suffer. I am all for boundaries, it worked in my case!
I love the clarity and generosity of your writing. And the texts that you share.
A couple of minor quibbles -- that don't take away from your main points at all -- :
What are we to make of the fact that Elizabeth does give in,a moment later, and more or less tell Lady Catherine how old she is?
With Frost, I think that the poem is so often cited to uphold the notion of walls that that has taken on a life of its own. In reality, though, might not the poem itself come down on the other side (no pun intended :)) of the wall question?
Thanks for these posts, and look forward to the next!
(Come down on the other side of the wall question as a fixed principle, that it? There is a wonderful article someone did once on the poem being cited in judicial decisions in the US, incidentally, usually the way this report seems to have cited it.)
Oh! On rereading this, I see that you mention the proverb from the poem, rather than the poem itself. So quibble deleted (sort of — because the poem itself really does push back against the saying as presented by one of the two characters).
I love all these points so much!! Thanks for raising them. I've always been disappointed by that follow up moment in P&P where Elizabeth reveals her age. I suppose for me the doubling back demonstrates the limits of boldness and humour in the face of privilege, class dynamics and deep-rooted social expectations. But I'd like to think that the way Elizabeth stands up for herself still has an effect: on the other guests, on herself, on Lady Catherine - even if she doesn't stick to her guns. What do you think?
As for Mending Wall, I totally agree with you. That's why I included a link for readers to take a look themselves. You're right, the poem's speaker actually questions the veracity of the proverb and ultimately their position feels like the stronger one. It's one of those funny poems in which the line people remember is actually not indicative of the poem's message. I can think of lots of examples of this: in fact, Robert Frost's other poem The Road Not Taken is often read very seriously but apparently was meant in a more satirical way, to parody the indecisiveness of his friend who struggled to make decisions.
Another example is Funeral Blues by Auden which again was apparently meant satirically but has been made famous as a sorrowful elegy by the film Four Weddings and a Funeral. But then, I find that poem so beautiful and so sad... so sometimes it's nice to read counterfactually or against the author's intentions
Ha — I’m with you on that one, too. Love that poem. And think that he was wrong to disown it. Have you read February House, about Auden’s time in a shared house in Brooklyn during the war? Fascinating.
“But I'd like to think that the way Elizabeth stands up for herself still has an effect: on the other guests, on herself, on Lady Catherine - even if she doesn't stick to her guns. What do you think?” Love that — never thought of it that way. And I suppose that Austen is setting us up, here, for the later encounter and conflict. It never occurred to see the
“ I can think of lots of examples of this: in fact, Robert Frost's other poem The Road Not Taken is often read very seriously but apparently was meant in a more satirical way, to parody the indecisiveness of his friend who struggled to make decisions.” Yes, poor Frost, constantly misinterpreted! I love that poem too, and have taught it from time to time. There’s something a bit magical when people read it aloud line by line and really read it for the first time, seeing the bits of misdirection.
… the first scene as setting us up for the second — as showing that Elizabeth has tried humour and now has to move on to plain speaking — but of course it does do that, too. Very nice.
Superb.
Thank you!! ☺️
Love your posts. 💕
Thank you Colleen!! ❤️
class acts!!
Very sensible advice. Action or lack of is the question, and it all depends on the consequences one is willing to suffer. I am all for boundaries, it worked in my case!
Thank you Maria! Boundaries are important, you’re right, and they can definitely make a relationship stronger if both parties respect them 🙂